News. . . .
September 10th, 2009
County Councillors to visit the town over supermarket planning
“Supermarket Saga Tours” by our on the spot reporter
The Great Day of the Planning Committee meeting in Carmarthen was a bit like one of those historical re-enactments, this time featuring the Grand Old Duke of York. Troops from the opposing sides duly tramped up Castle Hill to the County Hall, and then tramped back down again.
The Cawdor and Lidl applications came up much earlier in the proceedings than expected, possibly because the chairman decided that he wanted to clear the building of the assembled Newcastle Emlyn peasantry as quickly as possible.
At any event, a vote was taken to send the Planning Committee on a day out to Newcastle Emlyn to inspect the Cawdor and Lidl sites. This meant that all discussion was curtailed, and it is unlikely that the meeting will reconvene much before the end of September.
Eifion Bowen, the Head of Planning, noted that opposition to the Cawdor plan was very strong from the public, but he asked members of the Planning Committee to put aside letters they had received from local people, presumably so that the issue can be decided on the merits of the truly bizarre planning report.
Before the meeting passers-by would have noticed a bit of a media scrum going on outside County Hall. The BBC was there, as was the Carmarthen Journal. S4C turned up too late. Interviews were recorded, as usual with 99.9% of the material ending up on the cutting floor.
Afterwards a fairly surreal debate took place on Radio Cymru, with Kevin Davies sounding generally pretty grumpy and fed-up, and the lovely Audrey Baker of Ededa J modelling a little number inherited from Mother Theresa as she movingly described the plight of families with children who were denied the right to shop till they drop in a neighbourhood Tesco store.
Back outside County Hall, Haydn Jones again gave a masterful performance as he waxed lyrical about the beauty and charms of the town – “a town of character” – before adding that progress was sometimes essential. What does it all mean? Why is that man not Prime Minister?
Meanwhile more and more people are scratching their heads as they struggle to make sense of the Planning Report, which now contains an addendum produced by Savills which helpfully tells confused readers that what they have just read is pure nonsense. And they may be right.
For example, the report is based on a study which reckons that £6.4 million currently allegedly spent by people from Newcastle Emlyn at Tesco in Carmarthen will come back to the town. So that means that nobody from Newcastle Emlyn will ever go shopping in Carmarthen again.
For us blokes who have wheeled a trolley round the Tesco superstore as the missus chucks in the goodies, that would be very good news, but something tells me it is too good to be true.
The report also tells us that CK’s and Somerfield would lose half their business to a new supermarket. Not such great news for anyone who works there, perhaps, or indeed for anyone who works in any of the other shops in town facing Armageddon.
Unfortunately we can expect this story to run and run, but let’s all hope that Mr Davies doesn’t get a supermarket for Christmas.
For anyone wishing to come to the next Council meeting, pitchforks and torches will be provided.
Dai Aria
The presence of a large supermarket would destroy the character of the town and lead to the closure of many small shops. I am totally oppsed to the proposed development. The exisiting supermarket is large enough for a town of this size and there is a Tesco in Cardigan if required.
In reply to the mocking that I received at the hand of Mr Dai Aria, I really don’t know whether to laugh or be offended by it.
Within the last few years I’ve suffered the loss of my brother ,mother son and recently my mother in law. A heartbraking experience I can assure you.
Consequently your mocking, because I speak my mind doesn’t worry me at all. It does however prove that you are pathetic and a coward.
I hear every day about the concerns people have regarding their businesses because of the proposed Supermarket developements, which incidentally shoul never have seen the light of day in my opinion, Newcastle Emlyn is far too small a town. Nevertheless something is going to come,that’s for sure! People talk of the demise of Cardigan and other similar towns which has happened because the supermarkets have been located out of town taking the footfall away instead of trying to keep it in the centre of town.
I also have concerns about the future of my business and that of my staff, especially with the new Debenhams Store soon to open in Carmarthen. Do you still think that Newcastle Emlyn will still be able to draw the crowds? I am not so sure! I think Newcastle Emlyn will face tough times!
The feud between Messrs Williams and Mr Davies doesn’t concern me,my priority lies in maintaining my business and staff also the future of Newcastle Emlyn and it’s prosperity. I do not begrudge anyone their opinions nor do I insult them for their comments.
I suggest therefore Mr Dai Aria that if you are going to mock me for my opinions…..Come out into the open to do so.
Audrey Baker.
Stick to the issues both of you. How someone is dressed has nothing to do with the important debate over whether we should have more supermarkets in the town, any more than who in your family has died over the last few years.
Witty but anonymous commentary is no substitute for reporting the facts and having the guts to stand by them.
I’m sure Dai will speak for himself in due course, but I suspect that what will puzzle a lot of people is why Mrs Baker keeps popping up on radio to support the Cawdor proposals, which she says should never have seen the light of day.
To take the line that it’s not worth opposing a planning application because something will happen anyway is, with respect, to guarantee that this plan will succeed. Like everybody else, I agree that the site is an eyesore and that it could be redeveloped in ways which would really enhance and benefit the town.
The encouraging thing about Mrs Baker’s contribution here is that it shows that she shares the concerns of so many other decent people in town.
Let’s hope that the legacy of this money-grabbing proposal is not bitterness and division when so much of what we care about is the same.
In response to Mr Vale’s comment about why Audrey Baker keeps popping up on the radio, it is probably because she has one of the three longest standing businesses in Newcastle Emlyn!
I also agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion but the personal and sometimes threatening comments of Dai Aria are nothing to do with the debate.
Much has been written about the impact the Cawdor application would, if successful, make on the businesses of this town, the traffic congestion, the environment, the Welsh language, and many other important issues. However, it must have occurred to any impartial observer that no-one can say with CERTAINTY whether the impact would be favourable or, unfavourable.
What is indisputable is the size and proportion of the proposed development in relation to the town.
If you haven’t already, please look at the maps accompanying the application and consider how Castell Newydd Emlyn will look if one of the major supermarkets is allowed to occupy the Cawdor site. Isn’t it abundantly clear that the proposed development is simply monstrously disproportionate? (I wanted to say “…..is simply too fucking big?” but, I suspect Jeremy would not have accepted that.)
Do you really want to live in TrefTesco?
As I have lived and worked here for only twenty of my sixty years, I am probably considered as something of a newcomer who knows little of the ways of a local born man or woman.
However, I CHOSE to live here after living for forty years in my birthplace, originally a small village in the English County of Kent. The county’s motto, Invicta, was something of a misnomer, as much of the northwest area of the county became two London Boroughs. The High Street Tesco store which helped to close the local butcher, baker, and many other privately owned businesses is about to be replaced by an even bigger Tesco Superstore. Need I say more?
If the Cawdor application is successful, I might just as well have stayed there.
I sincerely hope that sufficient numbers of the Carmarthenshire County Council Planning Committee will, on their visit on 22 September, notice that Newcastle Emlyn still looks like a small but, attractive Welsh Market Town and that most of the English newcomers here behave in a similar fashion to the indigenous Welsh, ie acknowledging the existence of one another, enquiring about one another’s health, wanting to learn one another’s news, etc.
I understand that it has only taken forty years for the Welsh speaking population of the town to drop from 90% to 70%. I suspect that I can accept some of the blame for that. I also suspect that those percentages may never be reversed. The introduction of a major supermarket would have an equally irreversible impact on the local community.
By refusing these supermarket applications, the Planning Committee members may, at least, be able to prevent Castell Newydd Emlyn from becoming a clone of anyone of those indistinguishable English towns whose planning departments were short-sighted enough to allow supermarkets to dominate and deface them.
May I respectfully ask M Thomas to think a little harder about the comments of Messrs Vale and Aria?
Firstly, the former’s question was not so much why does Mrs Baker “keep popping up on the radio” as why does Mrs Baker keep doing so “to support the Cawdor proposals.”
Secondly, I doubt whether the cowardly Mr Aria would know one end of a pitchfork from another, let alone intend to use one. I suspect he wields the pen to mightier effect.
Very interesting & erudite comments indeed, by all concerned! I have to say I am totally divided by these plans, which, by the way I deem should be treated completely separately & individually – one constitutes a radical change to the ‘inner town’ (city centre if you will), whilst the other merely provides direct & opposite market share forces against an already existing store, whilst not infringing directly on the town centre itself. There is nothing wrong with a little competition!
But the reasons why I am undecided are this. Just like the esteemed Mr Ladbrook, I have moved here from England, albeit aged 13 and then schooled in Llandysul, some 31 years ago. I remain full time employed in a local business for some 15 years, and am familiar with many of this site’s contributors, and would not wish to be anywhere else, certainly not back in the Midlands, and so whilst not strictly ‘a local’, I consider myself to be a well known and valid member of the community we all share.
But I think we have to make a quite definite clear distinction between lifestyle and ‘conglomerate business’. I personally would welcome a Tesco Metro or better still a Sainburys store in town for many reasons – (1) the convenience; (2) the ecological fact that people will travel less distances, often one person to car; (3) the fact that it will simply give us access to better, fresher, cheaper produce; (4) the number of local jobs that could be created. Although the UK Government are insistent ‘the green shoots are beginning’, the simple fact remains that this area has been economically disadvantaged for many years! Most staff exist on minimum wage, with only statutory pay if off sick, etc!
In addition to this, if we have a new ‘superstore’ there is indeed NO compulsion for us to buy ALL our produce there, surely? Most of us, having built up friendly & conducive relationships with many local traders over many years will continue to do so, be it the butcher.. ‘ the baker, or the candlestick maker’ (sic).
But I do have reservations. The main one is a financial one. Many of us are now aware that the likes of Tesco, Walmart, et al are seemingly driving the world’s economies, and in the ‘safe haven’ that is NCE this would be a great shame.
I think a mutually agreeable solution can be reached, but I am doubtful. Common sense is a scant commodity these days, especially in politics & business. The planning department will in their wisdom form their own views, but to what end? If the Cawdor site could be developed in a tasteful way, with shops lining the walkway, lighting, landscaping, etc, it could be superb. But I also have to concede that the increased traffic issue could present a problem. We are all familiar with the roadside & general parking problems in town, but as taxpayers I think that this is something that should long ago have been addressed properly by town councillors & the local constabulary!
In short then, I am in favour, certainly of the Lidl proposed site, but only conditionally on the Cawdor one. I await your comments with interest!
Finally, can I just say that much as his/her ostensibly witty writings are devised to try to inflame the public debate, anybody who cowardly criticises named individuals on this site, but hides behind such a crass nome de plume as ‘Dai Aria’ should feel very ashamed, & be held accountable for their comments!
Sh’mae, bawb! Well, my last little report seems to have caused a bit of cackling in the hen-house. I would have come back sooner, but this dry weather has caused havoc with maggots up the back-end.
And, yes, Mr Ladbrook, I do know how to use a pitchfork. I was the champion bale tosser at a YFC rali a few years back.
I tried reading through Andy Unett’s comments, but he uses a lot of posh words, doesn’t he? Ostensibly witty? Whatever it means, it sounds very grand, achan. I got Mrs Aria to look up ‘nome de plume’, but she struggled. She thinks it might be something to do with garden gnomes and plums and that either Andy’s spelling is a bit iffy, or he’s been at the mushrooms.
So here’s a good Welsh word. Bondigrybwyll.
But I wonder if Andy Urnett isn’t in fact a gnome de plum for a well-known local councillor. It certainly sounds like someone I saw on the telly news the other night….”On the one hand I’m for it, and on the other I’m against it. Newcastle Emlyn is a gem with character and history and I wouldn’t change a thing. But the forces of progress are difficult to withstand, and this is a most difficult decision, so I won’t make one.”
Answers on a postcard please. Winners get to come to the farm for a bit of heavy petting and yummy e-coli. I may even expose myself.
Nos da i chi gyd. Dai
Thank you Dai for your usual considered and worthy comments. “Hardly mentionable” (…”a good Welsh word”?) demeans your judgement of both my own and my fellow contributors responses. Llongyfarchion i chi!
This site is intended and designed, I assume, to promote responsible and adult debate regarding our town, and not for the purposes of barbed and thinly veiled personal criticisms. As such, I would not dream of lowering myself to your own self-promoting standards, but would add that I remain justly proud of our town, our area, and its indigenous population. You mention that ‘Mrs Aria’ appears to have a passing interest in language, and I thank you sincerely for your complimentary comments regarding my own use of the Queen’s English. I can only humbly suggest that you now consult your esteemed life partner on what is widely accepted to be the lowest form of wit, and address your own future responses accordingly. Incidentally, I am a fluent Welsh speaker, but sadly my French vernacular remains poor, hence the extra ‘e’ on ‘nom de plume’; I trust that you understood the sentiments anyway?
Getting back finally to the real debate, it seems clear to me after the site meeting that we cannot now prevent the progression of certain plans for the town in the future, and that the best way forward is to formulate how best to arrange these to our own needs and wishes. Certainly a redevelopment of the unsightly Cawdor site seems in order, and I firmly believe that this may prove to enhance the town, and not diminish it or cost jobs in the long term. For instance, an ‘arcade’ of small specialist shops down the walkway adjoining HSBC would seem to be an attractive lure to visitors and locals alike if tastefully done, with numerous opportunities, and the planners could insist on ‘low-start’ rents, encouraging the growth of small business.
I am also slightly surprised at the argument used by many that any new store would have an negative impact on the Welsh language. Why? If a condition of the planning application was that any new jobs created had to be placed locally first, where is the threat, when the staff would be local, and so would the customers!? I would also point out that historically no modern civilization has survived based solely on the premise of its language defining its very culture and existence; surely we are more than that!
Finally, I can reassure Mr Aria that I have absolutely no wish to disturb his comfortable self-proclaimed ‘hen-house’, and that I am not and have never been a councilor, nor indeed a political animal of any kind, merely an interested and responsible member of our community. As such, I choose to use my real name on sites such as this (as do long-standing respected pillars of our community such as Mrs Baker & Mr Ladbrook), and would respectfully ask Mr Aria to spell my name correctly next time he uses it. I see no need to hide behind an alias (or ‘Aria’ – sic).
Sincerely, Andy Unett.
Hi Andy, I run this site. Thank you for your contribution.
You raise the issue of anonymous articles. Let me explain my position. As the person legally responsible for everything on this site I make the decision to allow the publication of material anonymously. If an article or report is well written, funny, informative and non-defamatory (or preferably all four), I will generally publish it providing I know the identity of the author.
Every comment and article and report submitted on the subject of the supermarket planning issue has been published. Unfortunately (in terms of balance) most of the material has been anti the proposals. I would love to see a well argued case for the project with real facts and figures based on the experiences of other small towns who have been through the same experience. No such article has been submitted.
The only comment on this issue I have ever edited (apart from typos and punctuation) was the removal of a veiled threat made by one person against the author of an article. After all, this isn’t Facebook!
I rely on reports, information and comments supplied by other people as I get no financial support from anyone to run this site, apart from SCL, Cardigan (www.scl.co.uk) who provide the hosting for free.
Hi Jeremy, thank you for your prompt reply; I was aware that you ran this site, and can fully understand any contributors reasons for wishing to remain anonymous, if their views are responsible and informed, and not of a personal nature. If on the other hand the latter becomes apparent, then there needs to be a degree of accountability in my view.
Turning now to the fact that there appears to be no substantiated figures supporting any planning for a supermarket, a simple Google search will reveal many such studies e.g. “In a 2004 MORI survey of public attitudes to Corporate Responsibility Tesco was most frequently named as the company which helps the community and society. 56% said that Tesco had a positive effect on their community”.
Although I can agree that these surveys have an obvious slant towards the conglomerates, it is also always true that any more people will give voice to their objections than will state their support of such projects in any time of change.
I await any future developments with great interest!
Kind regards, Andy Unett
Andy, you are very welcome to attend meetings of the Newcastle Emlyn Action Group. It is true that members of the group are against a supermarket on the Cawdor site, but the group is open to all, and there are many different shades of opinion there, from those who are probably opposed to all supermarkets to others who feel that while a Lidl would be OK opposite CK’s, a supermarket on the Cawdor site would take the life-blood out of the centre of town.
The group is definitely not opposed to all development. You are right that the Cawdor site is shabby and there are many things which could be done there which would enhance the town. Small shops, some affordable housing perhaps, and some community facilities, such as a place for young people to go that doesn’t involve massive amounts of alcohol, etc.
An interesting fact is that we the public own a big chunk of the site – the public car park – through Carmarthenshire County Council. Without the Council’s cooperation, no major development can occur on the site as a whole.
You also raise the point about the language. The argument is that where you have a vibrant local economy with opportunities for local people to make a decent living, “small” languages prosper accordingly. People with drive, talent and ambition are more likely to stay if there are opportunities for them.
Currently quite a few of the retail businesses in the area are owned and run by Welsh-speaking families, and there are a couple of very good examples of young people who are building some very good businesses here. If we get a supermarket, quite a proportion of those businesses will face a very bleak future, and you end up with an economy where the only jobs are low-paid and low-skilled. That certainly is not good for the health of the Welsh language.
I’m more than a little sceptical about surveys of the kind you quote. Tesco is very good at promoting itself – they can certainly afford to splash out on PR. But as you live locally, go an ask a few dairy farmers about Tesco’s corporate responsibility.
The planning application itself relies heavily on surveys and pseudo-scientific data produced by companies which have no understanding of this area.
Just to give you a couple of examples:
1. In one report it is stated that 43% of all food shopping in the NCE catchment is done in Carmarthen. A few pages on, and we are told that it is 48%. How do they know? Well, the data comes from a 3rd party survey, which probably spoke to a few dozen people once. And is it 43% or 48%?
2. Using these figures, one of the reports reckoned in March that there was £5.5m “available spend” to support a new supermarket. In June the same company wrote a second report which concluded that £16m was available.
3. One report put Somerfield’s turnover at £380k p.a., another at £3.4m. They reckon that the Spar shops in NCE and Drefach Felindre do the same volume of business – they don’t.
4. One of the reports reckons that “benchmark” turnover for the shops in the area is £4.31m. By benchmark, they mean that their formulae show that looking at national averages, socio-economic profiles, shop sizes, etc., that’s what they think the turnover should be. That’s just consultant jargon for “guess”. They don’t know. But they pretend they do.
And that’s the most sickening thing of all. A bunch of highly-paid, faceless people in offices far away don’t give a damn about our community, but on the basis of their shoddy number crunching of national averages, C2-D1 socio-economic income and spending data, notional catchment areas, “scientific surveys”, etc., Newcastle Emlyn and its people will see the area’s wealth being drained away into the coffers of a huge plc. Local people will lose their businesses and livelihoods, others will lose their jobs. But then some of us will be able to go and stack shelves in Tesco. Dim diolch. Cofiwch Dryweryn.
Hi Richard, thank you for your kind invitation to attend the Action Group meetings. For the moment, I am content to merely gain some more splinters and sit on the proverbial fence on this interesting and contentious issue! I have however recently felt pressed to make my hitherto private views known in order to bring some much-needed balance to this debate, and would reiterate that whilst I am not 100% in favour of the current plans per se, I can (unlike some) see many positives, which most people seem blinkered to in the heat of the argument.
I do concur with your extremely valid points regarding surveys in general, which I agree are frequently carried out by biased professional Market Research companies on minuscule sample groups, using psychologically loaded questions, which is perhaps understandable given that they are merely fulfilling the contractual obligations of their heavyweight employers. Indeed, as Disraeli (I think) said, “there are lies, damned lies… and statistics”! So we should indeed take all these with ‘a pinch of salt’!
But I must disagree with some of your fundamental underlying arguments against the proposals. You say that the language is an issue – why, when we have had a Sommerfield store, a Spar, and latterly a CK’s for many years, with no obvious effects on the Welsh language? If a multinational chain were to open, why would it necessarily have any detrimental effect on the language, when they have quite clearly defined and ratified legislative commitments to operate a bi-lingual policy in-store? And if as responsible local electors we could strive to ensure that a prime condition of the application is to make certain that any jobs created are done so using the local workforce, surely that is a good thing, and no dilution of the language or culture need take place. Although I agree that nationally the minimum wage policies of such companies are an issue, this is widely commonplace in this economically disadvantaged area already, and surely some jobs are better than no jobs?
Secondly, whilst I agree that a number of local businesses are run by indigenous first language Welsh speakers, a vast amount are not. Having worked in the financial sector as a business professional for the last 15 plus years, I can assure you that in terms of the self employed we have a massively aging and shortly to be retiring population, and in common with many rural communities over the last 2 or 3 decades, our biggest export is now our youth. We quite rightly educate them to extremely high standards, they go off to college/uni, and often only ever return to see family, and who can blame them? Better prospects, better amenities, and in their view a better future, but a better lifestyle? I think not, but even if the proposed plans are passed (and I firmly believe it is just a matter of time in some shape or form) we can I think retain our quality of life, with enhanced facilities to boot, and with more freedom of choice, which can only be a good thing. If Tesco et al open a huge 24 hour store in Newcastle Emlyn, you are not compelled to shop there, are you? Just like you are not honour bound to drive (often one to a car) to Carmarthen or Cardigan or Swansea to shop, as many people do now?
In summary, I do not think anything the Action Group will do can ultimately prevent progress, particularly with the strength of the opposition and market forces in the current economic climate. What we should be doing in my view is rather than ‘stamping our foot’ and saying ‘no,no,no’, using the situation to our advantage. Educate shoppers that there is a better choice from their local butcher, fruit and veg supplier, baker etc., with high quality seasonal locally sourced ingredients. Insist that the plans are actioned in a way which will enhance the town, improving parking, facilities etc, creating local jobs, and providing better local choice with ecological benefits. Assist local small businesses with the changes, possibly with the financial help of the Assembly (or indeed the developer), to modernise business premises, improve the appearance of the town, restructure the ludicrous parking policies, and ensure that local small businesses are fresh and competitive, and can offer a viable and enviable alternative.
You submit that “we, the public own a big chunk of the site in the car park”. Well, unfortunately that counts for little in this day and age. ‘We, the public’ own some £3000 each of the RBS/Northern Rock, but were we asked for that contribution, and can we have access to our money on demand? Clearly not. The council obviously have half an eye on the possible increased parking revenue, and also on the massively boosted council tax income from such developments.
I think it is naively simplistic to rely on the basic premise that any such development will ‘ruin the town’, and to merely dismiss the prospects it may provide, and in this I am confident that handled appropriately we can learn from the mistakes made in Cardigan and other rural developments, and certainly cannot halt such progress.
The Action Group, whilst opposing the plans, should be now formulating their own revisions to these plans, which whilst accepting the inevitable, should seek to compromise and gain from these proposals, in the form of (as you say) a suitably tasteful developed site, local job creation, affordable funded new housing and new business premises etc.
Finally, may I respectfully submit that your mention of the Tryweryn historical case is an absolutely spurious one, having no direct bearing on this issue whatsoever, and this would seem to be a merely inflammatory political reference on your part.
Kind regards, Andy Unett
This is not fair on ck’s they will no be able to compete and that will mean people loosing there jobs if this happens all small shops will close and a lot of people out of work why not have it in cardigan.
“Finally, may I respectfully submit that your mention of the Tryweryn historical case is an absolutely spurious one, having no direct bearing on this issue whatsoever, and this would seem to be a merely inflammatory political reference on your part.”
Andy, if you think Richard is talking bollocks, why not say so and say why it is bollocks. You write like a script for an 18th Century BBC consume drama. Are you serialising your comments?
Dan, I’m surprised that the owner of CK’s is not cashing in right now on his asset to be honest and offering his own store to the highest market bidder, be it Tesco or Lidl or Aldi. Maybe that would be the best solution for all concerned – he makes a profit, we get an out of town national market leader superstore complete with existing adequate parking, jobs are retained, and no re-development plans are needed!
Dylan, I’m not sure whether that is a thinly veiled compliment or a criticism? I do agree that Richards last paragraph was indeed ‘bollocks’, because the seizing of land in North Wales by an Act of the Westminster-based Parliament, and the subsequent relocation of households and flooding of a huge valley just to send water to Liverpool was a patent travesty of justice (for which they apologised in 2005 – hmmm, methinks ‘kopout’!). But it has absolutely no relevance to the building of a new supermarket in Newcastle Emlyn!
Regards, Andy
Sorry, some final thoughts on this, before I take a back seat & let others have the forum:
1. We are in a way in a deeply enviable commercial position here. We have an absolutely prime site going begging (if not two) and can therefore dictate our own terms. In virtually every case study I have examined (including alas Cardigan), a new development site, typically Tescos, has been created miles out of town, with ample parking, meaning people do all their shopping there, then drive home. It is undeniably convenient and cheap, and we have all done this, and I agree that this is fundamentally wrong. But in our case, the proposed Cawdor site is centrally IN the town, and if we could encourage shoppers to ‘bulk shop’ for their groceries, with subsidised easy parking, put their shopping in the car, then wander down a developed well lit walkway with cafes, street food, gift shops, tables outside, and a picnic/bbq area on the river view etc., to the nearby butchers, bakers, cashpoints, bars et al., it could be of great benefit to all. Coupled with which for people who do not drive it would be an ideal solution.
2. It would also provide a much needed impetus for some of the sadly outdated, all too comfortable, & lacklustre businesses in the town, in terms of ‘smartening up their act’. Without wishing to name names, I am thinking in particular of us at last having a decent fishmonger (we have some of the best fresh produce in the world, but can’t source it here), absolutely no competition in terms of an electrical appliance provider, little in the way of mens clothing or shoes, our kitchen shop is getting a bit stale, & our two so-called supermarkets in the town are essentially convenience stores. Having said that, we could actively encourage any new supermarket shoppers to use the excellent deli, two superb butchers, the fantastic flowers & gifts in the nearby Tivy Hall, and the very cheap bargains in the great new Bargain Box! We DO have some good shops, and there is no reason for that to change!
3. Progress does not always = change for the worse. Progress can and does often = opportunities. Progress can = improvements. I implore you all, please don’t let this become a case of modern day uninformed resistant for-the-sake-of-it Tolpuddle Martyrs!!
Regards, Andy
Andy, there has been a good airing of the arguments for and against here, and I won’t trot out mine again, except that Tryweryn is relevant – Tescos and the others may put up a few bilingual signs and give a few local people work on the checkouts, but that doesn’t make them Welsh. Just like Tryweryn, this is another smah and grab raid on Wales, but this time with local money rather than water being carted off over the border.
Next time you come shopping in Newcastle Emlyn, look a few of the shopkeepers and their staff in they eye and tell them why you think they should lose their jobs and businesses. That’s what this boils down to.
You’re right that our shops don’t match up to the glitzy shops of the big cities. And that’s just the point – this is a small, working town without airs and graces. But I’d rather shop at JDR Thomas than Currys or buy my fruit and veg at the Friday mart than buy overpriced, over-packaged stuff from Tescos any day.
And watch this space. We might be the underdogs, but we stand a bloody good chance of beating the bullies and big shots.
Hi Richard. Hmmm, an interesting political stance. Perhaps with your vaguely parochial ‘smash and grab raid on Wales’ ethos, you’ll be asking us to build a wall on the Welsh Marches next, and advocating the return of Owain Glyndwr! Are you seriously suggesting that local town planning permissions be restricted in future to Welsh businesses only? I think the European Court may well have an opinion on that, and justifiably so.
Also, I am very familiar with numerous shopkeepers and their staff in Newcastle Emlyn, as I am in the town 4 or 5 times a week, at lunch or 5pm, and have been for the last 31 years. I have absolutely no problem with honestly advancing my balanced views with any of them, as a responsible and long standing member of our community. I am merely proposing that some freedom of choice is better in any democracy than an artificially enforced lack of it. I frequently purchase locally, as any trader in the town can tell you, but like almost everybody else I also use modern convenience stores to ‘bulk shop’, whether it be Tesco Online, or Aldis in Cardigan, or indeed CK’s. Just like all of us, I am driven in the main by simple financial economics. And there is absolutely no compulsion for any of us to shop at any time where we do not choose to. In addition, there are many case studies where an in-town development has NOT led directly to job losses, nor monopolised a market. It does I concede bow to market forces, encourages entrepreneurial enterprise in existing and new businesses alike, and promotes competitiveness.
I think you slightly misunderstand me. Whilst I do not like the current Cawdor site plans, I think there is a certain inevitability involved in some form of these, but of course respect the town’s right to oppose these in their entirety, and indeed heed anybody else’s views. My point is that if change is coming, we need to handle it appropriately, to our own advantages.
The proposed Lidl development would in my view, given the current recession, be an excellent one, giving economically disadvantaged shoppers a good quality local affordable option.
And it may have escaped your notice that Somerfield were until recently a German-owned company, and that the Spar franchise is Dutch! Yet we happily all shop in these on a daily basis, for one simple reason – they have been here in the town for many many years!!
I am just against unwarranted resistance based solely on the concept of ‘change’, and whilst I fully understand your own business reasons for opposing such a change, I cannot agree with its basic premise at this time, but remain as ever open-minded on this (and any other) issue.
Regards, Andy Unett
One other salient point Richard – the title ‘The Action Group’ is by very definition a complete misnomer, since your very own self-proclaimed basis is to retain the status quo in Newcastle Emlyn, i.e. complete ‘inaction’, lets never do anything, lets not change in any way,shape, or form!
My own considerable experience in industry, primarily the financial & IT sectors, have underlined to me over many years and two major recessions that the inability to embrace and confront and adapt to commercial changes, in all their many forms, results in complacency, inactivity, and ultimately extinction, and in this sole regard I share with you your well-founded concerns regarding local business, and can only stress that we should try to use such inevitable change to our advantage.
I can only hope that when the revised suitably ‘council slanted’ plans are re-submitted, which we all know they will be, your Group can take on board some of my suggestions, in the sincere hope that whilst providing a further shopping option (wherever it may be) our town is not diminished but enhanced for all concerned with any such future development.
I am somewhat surprised that I seem to be the only rational proponent of coping with the obvious future changes to our commercial landscape, but the bandwagon ‘Tesco Witchhunt’ which seems to be taking place in the town is neither going to affect them one iota, or change what will happen, other than giving you and others the sickly smug satisfaction some years down the line of saying ‘I told you so’ if it ends in economic disaster!
At least I am trying to contribute some positive input, and not merely the negative.
Andy
Andy, just for the record, the Newcastle Emlyn Action Group is a completely open public forum. It is opposed to the Cawdor plan, but has not objected to the Lidl proposal. The group is made up of people representing a very wide spectrum of opinion, but it is defintely not opposed to all change and development (if you remember, I said that we would welcome a more imaginative scheme for the site that enhanced the town).
Finally, when the group was formed, one of the declared aims was to become a forum for tackling other issues relevant to people who live and work in the town. But, as you may be able to understand, the supermarket proposal is likely to continue to demand all our energy and resources for a while to come.
Huge amounts of hard work, all unpaid and voluntary, have gone into the campaign, and it has been great to see so many people from different backgrounds coming together and doing something for the wider community.
Bois bach! Haven’t you lot got anything better to do?
I started to get suspicious when Dai began asking me about a lot of fancy words, and thought he must have gone on to one of those porno dating websites. Mam warned me that something like this might happen, and when I first saw all these men’s names – Andy, Richard, Jeremy, and the like, I thought for a second Dai might be turning gay. Well, it happens, doesn’t it? Mam’s women’s magazines are full of that sort of thing. So I threatened him with the bander I use for castrating the bull calves, and I don’t think he’ll be spending any more time on this website.
Andy’s contributions remind me of what Dad used to say when he was judging at the local eisteddfodau. “Half of them are incontinent, and the other half are constipated”, he used to say about the stuff he had to read. This Andy fella seems to be a bit of both!
Of course, it all made sense when Andy revealed that he had many years experience in financial services. Only a merchant banker could write like that!
Oh well, off to buy a new frock which Dai has agreed to pay for. I’m in a bit of a quandary though. Too old for Top Shop and too young for Ededa J by about 20 years. What’s a girl to do?
Byeee!
Eluned x
Richard, I admire your efforts, and those of others, in the NCE group, and I am sure that your concerns are both valid and well intended, and I applaud that. I reiterate that although we seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, I’m sure that our sentiments have a lot in common. Not being a Company Director with immediate business concerns of my own future regarding how the plans will affect turnover etc., I can though understand your standpoint on this issue.
Eluned, interestingly enough, Newcastle Emlyn doesn’t actually have a Top Shop – are you proposing we build one to assist with your dress choice, maybe on the Cawdor site?! If you are indeed old enough and erudite enough (and by the way actually a real female person, which I humbly submit you are not!) then to construct a decent well reasoned criticism of my arguments would be welcomed, rather than relying on ‘quaint’ stereotypical and half-baked attempts at humour, so I suggest you do so. And I am not a ‘merchant banker’, unless of course this was a poorly thought out and badly written attempt at ‘Mockney’ (sic) rhyming slang, and thereby a thinly veiled dig at me?
Interesting, but hardly amusing! Andy.
OK OK, so neither of you two gents wants not to have the last word, so this conversation could go on until Christmas unless someone brings it to an end. So that’s what I’m doing. Thank you both for the lively debate. Have you thought of writing a “Gentlemen of Letters” together? – Don’t answer that….
what a lotta comments, enjoyed Dai’s harmless humour.
Seriously the supermarkets are turning their attention to the market towns of Wales. I find these towns inspirational, bustling, beautiful, full of character, Welshness, locally owned shops, and not depressed at all. Low wages in a great area is worth 10X the money with no community or freedom or beauty – or customer loyalty around you.
But the writing is on the wall for the global economy and the supermarkets know it. The future is local and rural, and they know it, they want it. They eye up the diverse shops in the high st, and think hmm we could do that, and that and that, mop em up.
The gorgeous young man who is head of corporate affairs for Tesco in Wales spends his entire time wooing decision makers and selling the sparkle, the variety, the local sourcing and renewable energy and real bags of TESCO.
He is PASSIONATE about his supemarket. Alas the supermarket is run by share-holders whose sole passion is their dividend. They have no interest or loyalty to Wales let alone its communities and towns. Same for all corporate supermarkets.
Don’t be lured and destroyed as so much of the world has been. Welcome incoming businesses and talents, if they are incoming, not a corporation using a bit of Wales to feed its infinite greed. And WELL done for rejecting it councillors, however it was done.
I’d respectfully like to observe that it’s not only the local shops who could lose out, if this/these development/s go/goes ahead. Said local shops in their turn support their neighbouring artisan food producers, who rely on the town’s shops’ mutual support.
Official figures in the form of a recent TNS Superpanel S2 (week ending 12 July 2009) indicated that for the majority of Welsh consumers the provenance of their food was extremely important, with 69% declaring that they much prefer to ‘buy local’.
The big-chain supermarkets may claim to stock ‘local’ produce; but sadly, much of this is obscurely ‘Welsh’ rather than directly sourced from within only a few miles (notwithstanding those claims are tenuous & even misleading to say the least; with the rearing of some livestock & processing of certain aforesaid produce, taking place well outwith the Welsh borders altogether).
And whilst any actually genuine local produce is available relatively cheaply to the typical supermarket consumer, it comes at a heavy cost to the local producer (who may ultimately be forced to turn out quantity at the expense of quality; not to mention suffering the notorious instability of supermarket contracts which can essentially bankrupt smaller producers in the blink of an eye).
It simply isn’t a viable market for the majority of your neighbouring artisan producers. Nor indeed, does everyone want to supply their high-quality, exclusive produce to a mass market: believing, rather, in creating something truly special for their local clientele to help support that specific economy which in turn, loyally supports them.
However if people turn away from their local High Street in favour of shopping in a large, faceless supposedly ‘cheap-n’-cheerful’ Superstore; not only might it turn our lovely, traditional High Street into a ghost town (look at what’s frighteningly happening to Cardigan for example) but it might also prove the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for some of your local food producers as well….which means shoppers may no longer be able to enjoy the variety & quality of local produce that they naturally demand & up-to-date, have of course, enjoyed.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not at all against progress: so long as it is fitting; & within context. There are numerous pros & cons for a 24-hour Emlyn Superstore but as we already have three perfectly well-stocked & reasonably-sized grocery shops offering perfectly decent choice, variety, & extensive opening hours to the consumer, why do we need yet another – or even two – allegedly “bigger & better” consumer outlets?
It would be wonderful to see the tired old Cawdor site more appropriately redeveloped. What about a covered market such as the recent regeneration project in Carmarthen? That would provide fresh opportunities for local businesses & keep Newcastle Emlyn proudly on the map of its heritage – as a thriving, effervescent, beautiful Welsh Market Town.
When we moved here a fair few years ago it was for that very reason: this Town has a heart, it is a true Community. Go into any shop & you have a wonderful sense of bygone values: where people matter; where the shopkeepers care about & personally know & understand their customers; plus will happily go that “extra mile” to be of service (as in not just smiling apologetically & saying “sorry, out of stock” or “sorry, we don’t stock that” but with the ironically modern twist of doing their utmost to research said product on the Internet & then providing it for you at a competitive price – no matter how obscure).
Few places in the UK these days, still espouse ‘early closing’ (which sadly some might consider an inconvenience but which we simply see as a better way to organise our own frenetic lives – & which acts as a timely reminder that we too, need to take time to relax: life should be about quality & not quantity, after all – do you live to work, or work to live….?). Thank goodness for common sense.
I do hope that the intrusion of one of the major multiples into the core of Emlyn would not change this; hopefully shopkeepers will not feel forced to “jump on the unhappy bandwagon” to “compete on an unlevel playing field” by forcing all our local shops to keep extended opening hours: to me, that’s not “convenience”, that’s pushing us all into the frantic 24-hour consumer culture which – let’s face it – is so damaging & exhausting, in so many ways.
Whatever the decision, I do sincerely hope it is made with ALL the pros & cons for Newcastle Emlyn taken into due regard with carefully-considered equanimity to ensure this wonderful town’s bright & prosperous future; & that whatever happens, it isn’t just a case of another successful turning of the thumbscrews from the corporate ‘bully boys’ enabling them to drain the life out of yet another very special place; as, alas, we’ve seen all too often these days.
All-too-few places can boast a bustling market – whether sheep, cattle or fruit-&-veg – for several days of the week. Traditional values are still upheld; Emlyn is one of the very few places in the UK where I still feel confident to return safely to my car post-10pm after enjoying a sociable evening in one of the comfy tafarns or a meal in one of the superb restaurants/bistros we are so lucky to have on our doorstep.
Traditional, thriving Market Towns such as lovely Castell Newydd Emlyn, are our heritage: our pride; & (if only we’d actually LISTEN to actual consumer demand) our FUTURE.
Let’s not destroy the vibrant heart of this wonderful town (as happened fatefully before in AD 1403 – if Legend would have us believe – when the last Dragon in Wales was killed on the Castle walls, after which it tragically fell).
The Heart of the Dragon has been reborn.
As a community, let’s keep our traditional, Market Town heart beating. Like our Dragon, we are fast becoming an endangered species, after all….